Awhile back I posted an article on judging our teachers and in it I identified a few points that are red flags before we jump head-first into a ministry. In that article, I examined Beth Moore and her testimony that I found in Christianity Today.
I received a few emails telling me I was wrong and a clear testimony could be heard in her “Daniel” or “Stepping Up” video series, so I watched “Stepping Up” and would like to give you my thoughts as objectively as a I can.
The first thing you notice is that Beth Moore is PASSIONATE. No question about it. She also has a lively personally which draws people to her. She is like the ultimate motivational speaker. She is funny and expressive which makes her enjoyable to listen to. She exalts God as well as Christ and does not lack in praise and worship.
The background for this 6 hour study was the Psalms of ascents (Psa 120-134). These were songs that pilgrims sang when traveling to the three yearly feasts. The first hour was about how important songs are to us. The problem is that songs quickly tend to manufacture emotions and get people pumped up on superficial feelings. When the person makes a “decision”, it may the music moving in them and not God. Another problem is that too much of our Christian music is severely lacking in sound theology. Most of it is encouraging “feel good” music. I think this is an important difference of opinion, but most definitely a secondary issue.
One of the topics that is she relates to is bondage to sin, but the overtones are not being a rebel against God, but more like a victim of sin. She said that she was miserable in that cycle of sin, and she would repent, but she didn’t know how to get out of that hole. There is almost a theme of being oppressed by our circumstances, not willful rebellion against a Holy God. She mentioned God’s wrath in this series, but she said that God is coming back and people are going to have to answer for the things they have done TO YOU.
In her second session about 3 quarters of the way through, she presents the Gospel to her audience. This is THE most important message we have as Christians. If she is not clear and on target with the Gospel, then nothing else matters. I listened… and waited
Unfortunately, it was very disappointing. This is the Gospel she presented…
This is the simplest process you have been invited to take. Simply coming to the cross of Christ and saying, I just don’t believe that You did it for everyone, I accept that You did it for me. By grace and grace alone I receive this gift. I want to walk Your path. I want to fulfill the destiny, in You, that You have had for me since before the foundation of the world. Come into my life Holy Spirit, You will never leave me or forsake me… and it’s done. And it’s done. Sealed until you see Him face to face- He’s never getting out, no matter what you do. You can try and get rid of Him and you cannot make Him go away. Believe you me, if you could, I would have done it. Take a deep breath of absolute assurance and absolute certainty. … You’ve got to know that you know that you know that you belong to Christ, no matter how you feel. Tomorrow morning you may awaken and say, “I don’t feel any different”. Well it doesn’t have anything to do with how you feel, does it girls? It has to do with what you know to be true, and you know that God is faithful to do what he promised and if you invited His Son into your life, He is there, and He is there to stay.
Her audience needed to hear that they had broken God’s Law, that everyone in that audience, and at home, were guilty criminals before God. Beth needed to allow her audience to weep over their sins before being brought to the cross. Her presentation, you will not find any mention of sin, Hell, judgment to come, repentance or the Law of God… the very thing that Paul says is a schoolmaster that leads us to Christ. People need personal conviction of sin, and she told them to repeat an incantation, a magical phrase. She then prompted them to more of an intellectual belief in Christ rather than total surrender.
I want you to notice something else. Beth says that it is not about feeling different, and that is true, but what she left out is that it is all about BEING different. Being saved is a radical change. The concept of being born again is like being run over by a Mac truck. Your thoughts, your desires, your very nature would have been crucifed with Christ. You may not feel different the next day, but unless there is a new creature standing where the old sinful man stood, then you are not saved.
Beth does mention repentance in her study, and she talks about what a sinner she is, but I would like to see something deeper from her on these issues.
The way she talked about repentance, it was saying “I’m sorry” to God every day. I want to know if she thinks repentance is also the one time turning from sin, forsaking it, and turning to God, that happens at salvation. I know that as Christians we all still sin, but apologizing to God and turning from sin are two different things.
And she does calls her self a sinner, but I have close family members who call themselves sinners and then turn right around and say, “I don’t deserve Hell! No one deserves Hell!” There are also countless Catholics who call themselves sinners that believe in work righteousness and will end up in their sins on judgment day. Saying she is a sinner does not give me an insight to her theology in this area.
She also says in her study that she will NEVER talk condemnation talk to any of her girls. She then talked about not being able to take the next step if we continue to be carnal. It sounds like she believes that someone can be living in sin and still be a Christian. If that is true, then this is really bad teaching. I thought of this again when she talked about people living “totally disobedient to God” and then said, “I’m not coming down with condemnation on anyone…” If she believes that a sincere prayer saves a person, then she would not be able to tell the sheep from the goats. I would be interested in knowing what she would say about someone like Ray Boltz. I suspect it would be something like “only God can judge his sincerity.”
She mentioned a girl in Africa she was ministering to and she said that the girl, who claimed to be a Christian, contracted AIDS, but Beth did not say how she got the disease. The girl waited until the last possible moment to tell her family and they said to her, “You are no longer one of God’s children.” Beth gave a strong answer to that, which was, “THAT IS A LIE!” The problem is that the audience is not given any more information, so the audience is led to believe that she was a Christian no matter what kind of fruit she was bearing. She could have been a career prostitute, but don’t dare question her salvation.
She also talked about encouraging one another and she gave some examples like, “That is a beautiful handbag” and “Girl, your hair looks fabulous!” I don’t think that is the type of encouragement that Jesus or Paul had in mind. In fact, that plays more to pride and self esteem. When I think of biblical encouragement, I think more of something like, “Do not rejoice that demons are subject to you, but rejoice that your name is written in heaven!”
On a positive note, Beth talked about being forgiving one another and being more loving and more gracious to each other. From my viewpoint, she was right on the money with these.
Overall, I did learn a lot about the 3 feasts and there were some valuable information in her session, but the focus was too often on my blessing, my healing, my joy, my encouragement, my pain, my weariness, my healing… it was very man centered at times and I am sure that there plenty of women that feel fantastic after her studies. I could be very wrong about some of her theology, but there was nothing good in her Gospel presentation. This series needed the Law of God and it was no where to be found.
–Danny
...Say What?? 
I cannot tell you how grateful I am for your review on this study of Beth Moore; in this days we are surrounded by wrong theology and is hard to recognize it at times, my church has a study on it, and I sincerely do not know what to do, refer them to this page or not to tell them anything I have learned, thank you again for the time you take to study and write reviews these reviews
Karla,
Sorry I didn’t post your comment until today. Memorial Day was spent out of town. Thank you for your post and encouragement!
–Danny
Maybe I am completely wrong for leaving a comment, but your ‘review’ disturbed me. All I got from reading this was that people must be perfect in order to be ‘Christians’. David, committed adultery and murder, yet was still called a man after God’s own heart. You seem to be forgetting that God’s grace is enough. That we are weak, and in our weakness, Christ’s power is displayed. (2 corinthians 12:9-10) By judging Beth Moore entirely on an intellectual level, you have completely overlooked the work that the Holy Spirit himself was doing the hearts of the audience that is unseen by man.
God is the ultimate judge, and by judging teachers, you are asking for a lot of judgement at the throne of God.
Who decides what others should speak? You speak as if you knew exactly what God wanted her to say, as if you were God himself. That kind of pride is deadly.
Danny,
I hope this finds you doing well. I used to know a guy that would write his pastor a long letter after each sermon he preached. Spelling out everything he said wrong during his sermon. He is a well educated and well read person…I guess he reads the bible alot, because he seemed to know enough to tell the pastor what he was saying was wrong. I have read some of your blog and realized that you are that same guy. You seem to have alot to say, but really say nothing. You seem to think as soon as the preacher is given the ok to start his sermon he is supposed to take one step back,, and give it to you. Tell you everything that is wrong with you. Danny, we already live in a synical world. Not everyone is the same and there are preachers and teachers out there for everyone. Yes, there are preachers and teachers out there that are not very good or should be doing what they do, but Beth, Joel, and Rick these are sound people that do good work. Danny, you’re obviously a well read and educated young man, quit taking the easy way out. p.s. take a new picture and smile:))
Jade,
In judging what I wrote, telling me not to judge others, didn’t you do the same thing? I would agree with you and say that NO ONE is perfect. Christians still sin, but they don’t run after sin, they don’t live in a lifestyle of sin. But too many times, I run in to those who profess to be Christians, but their lives are not any different. They openly sin and think nothing of it. They are not dead to themselves. They don’t understand the nature of God, or the gospel. That is NOT Christianity. Jesus said that MANY would say Lord, Lord, and He will say to them, depart from me, you workers of iniquity, I never knew you.
–Danny
Donald,
Thank you for your comment. The Bible tells us that there will come many false teachers that will lead many down the wrong path. It also tells us that there is coming a time when people will not endure sound doctrine, but choose leaders for themselves who will tickle their ears. The Bible also tells us to JUDGE those who teach us, to make sure they are keeping with the word of God. The only way we can judge the truth is to study the Bible and pray for discernment and wisdom. Donald, how often do you study the scriptures? I do think we ought to have a lot of grace toward those teachers who are seeking to preach the word of God correctly, but Joel Osteen and Rick Warren are NOT those pastors. They are off in some seriously bad teaching. Don’t go by what I say, study your Bible and pray for wisdom.
–Danny
danny
interesting. forget the law. jesus fulfilled that. we are free from the law. john 3:17. for god did not send his son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. it’s a free gift. you don’t have to do anything. an i’m sorry, get cleansed and a new white as snow heart. we aren’t judged by how many tears we cry. you sound as thought you want to judge everything on a meter. and then keeping judging. jesus died for our sins once and for all. for all time. he doesn’t go back on the cross evey time we sin. god had to find a way to get rid of the sin factor once and for all. so he found the ultimate sacrifice. you don’t get it at all. you, my brother, are not free. jesus means complete freedom. when you finally “get it,” you won’t want to sin. once you realize what jesus did for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD. for the abuser, rapist, pedophile, murderer. he took on every sin of every man once and for all. so that mankind could just accept his free gift of mercy and grace. freedom of christ. and when you get what he did for you and for me, and accept that free gift, you realize sin leads to death. physical death. but not spiritual death. jesus overcame death and the grave forever. you won’t deliberately sin once you “get it.” you’re too busy condemning and measuring everything. i’m afraid it’s the church he condemned when he was on earth. he just wanted to love the sinners. same as today.
Dayle,
Whoever continues in sin is of the devil, and sin is transgression of the law (God’s moral law). Jesus fulfilled the law so we could be seen as righteous, not so we could ignore the Commandments. When He returns is He just going to love on sinners, or is He going to pour out His wrath on them, sending them to an everlasting lake of fire? I DO agree that Jesus died once for all sin, but Jesus does not need our acceptance. God already accepted Jesus’s sacrifice, and now I need Jesus to accept ME; not by “getting it”, but by my repentance and faith in Christ alone. Without this, there is no salvation. I also agree that we have tremendous freedom in Christ, but there is also a war that is going on between my flesh and my new nature. A part of the proof that you are saved is knowing how sinful you are and growing in sactification and holiness. Jesus came to call sinners to repentance, not to just love on them, and He condemned the religious hypocrites of His day, not the “Church”.
—Danny
we have some misunderstandings. we certainly are called to repentance, but the message is one of love. always has been, always will be. the ultimate sacrifice of love for mankind. it’s not a free ticket to sin. once to understand, (get it) of the kind of love that led to the sacrifice, you’ll live better accidentally than you ever did on purpose. because of the awesomeness of his love. you can never earn, you can never live good enough. it’ not possible. that’s why so many feel condemned. they’re never good enough. have never done enough. it’s not about works. it’s a free gift. people don’t go to hell because of sin. the sacrifice for sin was made. people will go to hell for refusing to accept the free gift of salvation. god had to find a way so sin wouldn’t be a factor between god and man. i know there are sins that lead to death. i know what the word says. living and continuing in sin. i’m saying once you repent, accept jesus, and his spirit lives inside you, you live a spirit filled life that’s so blown away by the sacrifice, it’s easier to live holy than by trying to do the “works” and earn what you cannot ever earn. we probably agree on many of these facts. and i disagree that proof i know i’m saved is knowing how sinful i am. all sin and fall short. he doesn’t constantly condemn me. the enemy comes to steal, kill and destroy. jesus provided everything i’ll ever need 2,000 years ago. and i dare say the church today is just as full of the religious hypocrites. also, when he returns if it were sinners he would be pouring his wrath on, it would be all of us, because as i stated, the word says we all sin.
I just wanted to write a quick note saying thank you for this blog. I am currently in a Beth Moore study and it just hasn’t been sitting well with me. With nothing but glowing reviews I was beginning to wonder if I was losing my mind or just being overly critical. I appreciate the specific concerns you have and am thankful that some of my vague concerns were brought into focus a bit more.
I am very concerned at what seems like a lack of reverence in the study I’m in. My desire is to know God as He’s revealed Himself, to know and appreciate the great lengths He went to for my justification and to live my life in gratitude and appreciation for that. I fear debasing what He’s done and making it into “cheap grace” and I guess that’s what I’m feeling in regards to the study I’m in. If He is the same yesterday, today and forever what has happened to the holy reverence of both the OT and the new?
I wanted to say thank you but I guess I needed to vent a little bit. :) So thank you, and despite those who have chastised you I hope you will continue to post concerns (and positive elements) regarding those you’ve looked into.
Dayle,
If someone jumps from a plane without a parachute, they die because they violate the law of gravity. Parachute’s SAVE people from the consequences of breaking that law. In the same way, people ARE sent to Hell because they have violated God’s law. If a person dies in their sins, they are judged primarily on their crimes they committed against a Holy God. People DO NOT go to Hell just because they didn’t “accept” Christ. Also, we don’t need to accept Christ, the Bible does not use that type of language. We RECEIVE Christ by repentance and faith. If a man cheats on his wife and she is willing to be reconciled to him, what would happen if he came up to her and said, “You know honey, I just want you to know that I accept you.” She would wack him in the head with the heaviest thing she could pick up. In essence, he is saying, you are acceptable to me. In reality, he needs HER acceptance.
–Danny
Many people around the world who embrace “Christianity” have never heard the true Gospel. They believe Christianity is nothing but a different set of rules, substituting Christian “dos and don’ts” for those of other religions. They continue to believe they must earn their way to God and then do their best to deserve the benefits of salvation. That’s not the true Gospel.
Accepting Jesus as your Savior with the belief that you are now going to abide by a certain set of rules, or exchange one set for another, is not the good news. Why? Because it still depends upon your performance. And I can guarantee you that the devil will make sure you know that your performance is not quite good enough. He is the accuser of the brethren (Rev. 12:10).
The truth that makes the Gospel the “nearly-too-good-to-be-true news” is that we are accepted by God through what Jesus did for us. The revelation of God’s grace will deliver you from a performance mentality to a total trust and reliance upon the Lord. Salvation is all about God’s faithfulness, not ours! This is foundational for maintaining a close relationship with God and receiving all the benefits of your salvation.
Romans 1:16-17 says,
“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.”
The book of Romans communicates that the Gospel is the power of God. It’s what produces the life of God in people. However, the word Gospel has become a religious term that has lost a lot of its meaning today. Many people associate “Gospel” with anything that has to do with religion, specifically the Christian religion. But “Gospel” literally means “good tidings,” or “good news.”
The Greek word euaggelion, which was translated “gospel” in seventy-four New Testament verses, was so rare in writings outside of the New Testament that it’s only found twice in extra-biblical manuscripts. The reason for this is because this word not only meant “good news,” but was actually describing “nearly-too-good-to-be-true news.”
Much of “Christian culture” today associates the Gospel with these statements: “You’re a sinner. If you don’t repent, you’re going to hell.” Now, these are true statements. There is a heaven and a hell, a God and a devil, and you will go to hell if you don’t repent and receive salvation, but even though all of that is truth, it’s not “good news.” It’s not “the Gospel.”
As a matter of fact, it’s the complete opposite of what Paul was teaching. Roman 2:4 says it’s the goodness of God that leads us to repentance, not judgment and condemnation. That is what Paul was talking about, and that is “good news.”
The Gospel is directly related to the grace of God. That’s the only way this forgiveness of our sins can be obtained. It isn’t through our holiness or good works. God doesn’t take the “good” people and save them; He justifies (extends salvation toward) the ungodly (Rom. 4:5).
This causes many problems for religious people. They say, “Wait a minute! I believe you must do this and that to be holy.” Religion—false religion, man’s concepts—teaches that right standing with God and His blessings come as a result of our own goodness and works.
Religious teachers say, “You must come to our church. You must pay your tithes, read your Bible, and pray more, to mention a few. Then, if you do all these things just right, God will accept you.” That’s anti-Gospel! It’s against the “good news” of God’s grace because it’s putting the burden of salvation on your back—and you can’t bear it. Nobody can save themselves.
That’s basically the false “Gospel” that religion preaches today. They may talk about the one true God and use terminology like “God the Father.” They may even mention that Jesus is the Savior of the world who died for our sins. But at its core, it’s another “Gospel”—which is no Gospel at all (Gal. 1:7).
The Gospel isn’t only the belief in salvation, but it’s also the understanding of the means by which this salvation is obtained. “If you’ll act good and do good, then you’ll be good” isn’t the true Gospel. Notice what Paul said while addressing the very first ministers’ conference at Ephesus:
“But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God” (Acts 20:24).
Another way Paul could have said this is, “I am testifying of the Gospel—which is the good news of the grace of God.” The words “Gospel” and “grace” are terms that can be used interchangeably. The good news—or Gospel—is the grace of God.
Even the word salvation is misunderstood. Evangelical Christianity says that salvation is a one-time occurrence, an experience when your sins are forgiven. That’s true, there is a moment when you pass from death to life, but that is not all that happens. It’s an incomplete definition. Salvation isn’t limited to the initial born-again experience.
Salvation is everything Jesus purchased for us through the atonement. Sozo, the Greek word from which “salvation” was translated means more than forgiveness of sin; it also means healing, deliverance, and prosperity. It’s a word that summarizes everything that Jesus provided for us through His death, burial, and resurrection.
James 5:14-15 vividly illustrates how salvation includes both healing and forgiveness of sin:
“Is any sick among you? let him call for this elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save [sozo] the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him” (brackets mine).
Salvation is a package deal and it’s all accomplished by the grace of God, not our works. However, Satan is always trying to deceive us. He is the one who wants us to believe we must earn things from God. He is the one causing us to doubt the Lord’s willingness to use His ability on our behalf, and unfortunately, the church is often reinforcing that belief.
I’ve had many believers come up to me in the prayer lines asking, “Why am I not healed? I’ve fasted, prayed, and studied the Word. I pay my tithes and go to church. I’m doing the best I can. What does God demand?” When I hear that, they have just given me the answer to their question. They aren’t pointing to what Jesus did; they are pointing to what they have done, and that always leads to failure.
Most people believe that God moves in their lives proportional to their performance. That was the error Paul was dealing with in the book of Romans. When Paul came along and said “I’m not ashamed of the Gospel!” he was saying “I am not ashamed to tell people about the goodness, grace, and mercy of God. The Lord loves us in spite of who we are and what we’ve done.” Now that’s “good news!”
The religious folks of Paul’s day thought this was terrible. They believed what he was preaching was heresy. People needed to recognize and relate to God based on how sorry they were. God wasn’t happy with them or the way they were acting. They were just worms in His sight. Sound familiar?
On the surface it looks like a humble position. In reality, it’s actually making a person’s relationship with God dependent on self. “Look what I have done for the Lord, how holy I’ve been, and how much I’ve denied myself.” This is actually a very self-centered, self-dependent way of approaching God that never produces any fruit in your life.
Religion wants to make sure that people know they are sinners and on their way to hell. However, the truth is that they already know that.
Romans 1:18-19 says,
“For the wrath of God is revealed [not going to be, but already is revealed] from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath [past tense] shewed it unto them” (brackets mine).
God’s wrath has already been revealed intuitively inside of every person. Each individual has within them the knowledge of God’s wrath against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men. So when someone wonders If I just tell people about the goodness of God, what will make them understand that they are sinners in need of salvation? Paul’s answer was that they already knew. In their hearts, people already know that they aren’t good, but sinners in need of salvation.The point is that you don’t have to bombard people with the fact that they are sinners; deep in their hearts they already know. You may need to spend some time on that issue in order to make your point and strike that chord in their hearts, but not by condemning them and restricting them to religious dos and don’ts. Paul was saying, “That’s not the true approach.”
It’s the Gospel—the nearly-too-good-to-be-true news that God has provided. It’s salvation for us by grace that empowers men to receive the forgiveness of their sins, the healing of their bodies, the deliverance from Satan’s oppression, and more. We don’t need to convince people they are sinners; we need to show them the way out. That’s the Gospel!
Do you need to be healed? The power for healing is in the Gospel. Do you need to be prospered financially? The power for financial prosperity is in the Gospel. Do you need to be delivered from the power of demonic influence, from depression, from yourself, or from something else? The power for deliverance is in the Gospel! The Gospel is the power of God. It’s “nearly too good to be true.”
sorry so long but wanted to address what i believe with scriptures once and for all. i follow along the lines of andrew wommack teachings. the above is from one of his “short” written pages. thanks for listening.
Parachute’s SAVE people from the consequences of breaking that law. In the same way, people ARE sent to Hell because they have violated God’s law. If a person dies in their sins, they are judged primarily on their crimes they committed against a Holy God. People DO NOT go to Hell just because they didn’t “accept” Christ.
Gal. 3:10 deals specifially to “the law.” Galatians deals with that subject thoroughly. There is no way to keep the whole law. We all sin and fall short,that’s why no man could ever keep the law. That’s why God sent his Son. Next, die in your sin and judged “primarily” on crimes…where in the world did you read that in the word? Next, “people do not go to tell because they didn’t accept Christ. I believe the commentary by Mr. Wommack should explain everything sufficiently. It covers ever you say, but never seem to back up with Scripture. Thanks for allowing me the opportunity to write.
where are my post, danny?
where did my posts go, danny? now why would you delete them? if the word backs up what is spoken the where is the problem?
this is strange. earlier today my earlier posts were not visible, and everytime i tried to post, it came up and said “duplied post” or something to that affect, and would’t let me post. i thought they were deleted and that sure seemed odd. now all of a sudden all of them appear……strange.
Dayle,
I have not deleted any posts or blocked you from posting. If your posts are missing then something else is wrong. Also, comments are not meant to be articles in themselves. They are meant to be thoughts on the main article. I try to keep comments short and sweet, and since you bring up so much that I have to address, I am trying to keep things paired down. However, I will answer specific requests, like when you asked, “where in the world did you read that in the word?” The answer is Rev. 21:8- all liars will have their place in the lake of fire (9th commandment). 1 Cor 6:9-10 The UNRIGHTEOUS will not inherit the kingdom of God. Righteousness is moral perfection, and the standard of Gods moral perfection is… the 10 commandments. Romans 2 – Those under the law will be judged by the law, and those who don’t have the law, when they do by nature the things contained in the law, it becomes a law to them. Acts 17:31 -God will judge the world in righteousness. Again, righteousness means moral perfection, and the standard of God’s moral perfection is the commandments. Romans 3:19 – Now we know that whatsoever the LAW says, it says to those who are under the law that every mouth may be stopped and the whole world may become guilty before God.
The Bible says that every man will proclaim his own goodness. I know of many people who will say that they are ‘sinners’ but they don’t believe that they deserve hell. They don’t think that they are particularly bad people. Most people I talk to don’t have any idea that God might be angry at them for their sin.
The fact is, those who die in their sins are guilty criminals before God. Only a person who understands that they are drowning in their sins will cry out for a savior. And to say that the scripture that says “the goodness of God leads us to repentance” means that we are only to talk about Gods goodness is an incorrect interpretation of scripture. God is good and that is why we can be granted repentance. But the scriptures do say that the sacrifices to God are a broken heart and a contrite spirit (Ps 51:17). God will grant repentance to those who are broken over their sin. James 4:9- Be wretched and mourn and weep, and let you laughter be sorrow and your joy to heaviness. Also Gal 3:10 only tells us that we are not justified by keeping the law, that is true, but we ARE certainly condemned by breaking it (Rom 4:15).
–Danny
ICor 6:9-10. You are incorrect. We are made righteous THROUGH what Jesus did for us. Our righteousness is IN Jesus. Stop with all your morality junk. Danny, you can NEVER be moral enough. You can never be good enough. You can never be anything to deserve what Jesus gave for the world. Grace is free, my friend. What you serve up is why no one wants christianity anymore. No one can live up to your standards. You’re right. Those under the law will be judged by the law. And you condemn yourself. You must be looking in webster’s dictionary for the meaning of righeousness. There is no such thing as moral perfection. The only perfect person was Jesus. I should think you would be grateful that on judgment day when weighing on the balance when you were found wanting, Jesus would step on and pay what you were lacking in your morality. Don’t you get it? While you are pointing your finger at everyone telling them they’re not good enough, Jesus simply says, Come to me, my burden is light, because I’ve made the way. Walk with me, have faith in me. You’ll not ever WANT to sin when you understand the price I paid out of our love for you. I paid the price for all the sin of mankind. Once and for all. Your righteousness is in me. When the Holy Spirit reveals this truth to you. You’ll stop trying to earn….
Dayle,
I NEVER said that anyone could be moral enough to be saved, and I did not say anything about having to work your way there. But I do say that God’s standard IS perfection, and that is why Jesus came to earth as a Jew, to live under the law. To keep the law perfectly that we could not. I arguing over things that I am not even saying.
–Danny
you are implying. you are old covenant. jesus is new covenant. gal 3:10. for as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, cursed is everyone who does not abide by ALL things written in the book of the law, to perform them. vs. 12. the law is not of faith… danny, no arguing here. take some time and slowly read galatians. ask the lord to reveal the truth to you. that’s all i ask…
The ladies’ in our church- Free Will Baptist- by the way- just finished our second Bible study with Beth Moore teaching. The first was “When Godly People Do Ungodly Things; this one was “Esther”. I get really upset when I read “reviews” like yours that put godly people down. Maybe you should realize that Beth Moore does not claim to be a preacher so please do not put her in the same catagory as the Joel Olsteens or the Rick Warrens of today. Maybe you should ask God to speak to your heart before reading her Bible studies and writing such “holier than thy” reviews. Be carefully who you “put down”. Remember-God is making reviews on your reviews. AND HE DOESN’T MAKE MISTAKES. If you had ever heard her speak you would know that she is NOT a motivational speaker– she’s just doing what God has called her to do and that is to minister to other women.
I am so saddened to see Christian’s arguing over the bible. A little insight. In 1st John 4:21 the bible implores us, “If anyone says I love God,” yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.” Now, let’s get a biblical definition of LOVE. In First Corinthians we are taught, “Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.” Wow, what a godly love that none of us are capable of performing. To the author of this website, I would challenge you, in love, to examine your heart and try to understand why you feel what you feel? Scripturally, no one is righteous, either before or after salvation. We are mere man. Even Paul talks about his struggle to stay holy in an unholy world in Romans 7. None of us are righteous, no not one. So perhaps we should look at things through an Ephesians 4 kind of way… “Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. Make every effort to keep the unity of Spirit through the bond of peace.” May God’s love and blessings abound on you both as you seek to know him and love him more.
Gen,
I am getting the impression that you think I hate Beth Moore, and that could not be further from the truth. The reason this website is here is because there is so many bad teachers leading people the wrong way. I am arguing for truth and clarity, and without truth, there is NO unity within the body. Those who would teach the word of God incorrectly actually blaspheme God’s name. If we truly love people, then we should stand up and speak up alittle when we see something wrong. That is what I am doing. There is something wrong… judge what is being taught by what scripture says and you will see something wrong too… or at least, you should.
–Danny
Danny. I googled Beth Moore and found your site and did a little reading and was both impressed and dismayed. I am a tent-making church planter of a reformed work in Blue Ridge Georgia and some of the ladies are requesting a Beth Moore Study. I have not listened to her personally but have had many ladies tell me (more positive than negative) that they really got a lot out of her studies. I went looking for some other information to bring to the Elder’s meeting when I found your site.
I can tell by your writing that you desire the pure milk of truth, but I would caution you on your extreme bent for a testimony that is satisfactory to you (because that is how you are coming across).
As a Bible teacher, Beth should have a number of goals for her ministry. 1. To clearly teach the subject she is teaching by keeping it in context, both grammatically and historically. 2. To make sure that clear teaching is communicated in a way so that most of the people go away with a clear understanding of what she said.
Having said that, every teaching opportunity among the saints is not necessarily an opportunity to remind everyone that they are sinners, headed for hell but for the grace of God. There is a place for that when teaching the saints but it need not be the primary focus of all teaching. Remember, her ministry is to the saints more than to the lost.
I’m not saying that your comments have no basis but I would like you to consider this:
Heb 6:1-3
6:1 Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, 2 instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3 And God permitting, we will do so.
We are being admonished in Hebrews to grow beyond the basics. And what does the writer consider the basics: the foundation of repentance (our sin nature), faith, resurrection, and judgement.
Not that these things are unimportant, but that the place for them is really important for the new believer, not so much for growing saints.
I detect from some of your conversations that “The Way of the Master” is behind some of your thinking. Those guys are great and I use them in our church, but their focus is teaching people to reach the lost, not how to teach the saved.
I wish you the best in your continuing efforts to proclaim the truth of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
Blessings
Hi Danny,
I also am starting a Beth Moore study with some girls at my university. I wasn’t part of the decision to do this particular study, and I found out only today that it would be her book “When Godly People Do Ungodly Things”.
I recognized the name Beth Moore, but I really wanted to do some critical research. Your blog answered some questions for me about her messages, and I thank you for that.
In the meantime I’ve read quite a few of the comments that have transpired between you and those who think that you shouldn’t judge the work of other “believers” and those who think that the Law should not be the main focus in a presentation of the gospel.
I firmly agree with you on both counts, and I wanted to encourage you to not become frustrated with those who attack you for expressing your concerns. The law is essential to the gospel because it is the proof that we have turned away from God’s holiness. Jesus is the way for us to return to God, and from the moment He does that work in us, we must be striving for perfection.
Thanks again, keep studying the word and reading John Calvin! :)
-Robin
To Danny and Dale
phew you guys are sure going at it huh? lol I have to be honest, I stopped reading after about the third post. Dale, I can understand how what Danny said in the initial article, it was a bit unclear, no offense Danny, I personally don’t like Beth Moore simply because she brings everything to you on a platter and then goes on about how you have to “dig” to learn. Anyways, that’s not why I wanted to leave a comment.
We are indeed saved by grace, there is no way we, such a sinful people, could ever come to Christ if it were not for His saving grace on the cross and His defeat of death. However I think you missed the point of what Danny was trying to say? Jesus says that if we love Him, we will keep His commandments.John 14:21 “He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves ME; and he who loves ME will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and disclose Myself to him.” We are no longer bound by the law, but we can not forget that the law was put in place to show us our sin. Without the law, we wouldn’t realize how wretched we really are. Paul also talks about putting on the new self in Colossians. There is a war between our flesh and spirit, but ultimately if we have truely accepted Christ and His salvation, we will wish to live for him and forsake our old self, and live in the spirit. That is what I believe Danny was trying to get across to you. We are not saved through works, but our works are the evidence of our faith. Paul says faith without works is dead, also Jesus even cursed the olive tree because it was not producing fruit. (I forget where that reference is) anyways I just wanted to share that, I don’t know if it will make any difference, and like I said, I didn’t finish reading all of your guy’s posts. But there was a verse I wanted to share with you.
Hebrews 3:12-19 “Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God. But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called “Today,” so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end, while it is said, “Today if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts, as when tehy provoked Me.” For who provoked Him when they had heard? Indeed, did not all those who came out of Egypt led by Moses? And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness? And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but tho those who were disobedient? So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.”
Please encourage one another. I love you both dearly, even though I have never met you. May God bless you, and lead you.
Christi
Danny, you are to be commended for your long-suffering patience with Dayle. I wish for the sake of the rest of us you would remove his comments and your replies to him. All he is doing is blocking the conversation with a different topic and harrassing you. I was introduced to Beth Moore this morning for the first time, and was disturbed by the implications of what she said on the video that I watched. I’m an open-minded level-headed grandma, Bible believing, career missionary over 60, if that lends any weight, and I think you are right on to question her theology and the validity of her ministry. I admire your bravery, brother. God bless you.
Another thing missing from your transcript of Beth’s gospel invitation: the name of Jesus.
she did use the title of Christ a couple of times, and if I remember, she did not avoid the name of Jesus in other parts of the series, so it did’t set of any red flags for me.
Here is a Calvary Chapel Pastor explaining why he will no longer all Beth Moore to be taught and why a trip to her conference was canceled.
[audio src="http://calvaryhemet.podbean.com/mf/web/w3g4dt/PastorGaryBethMoore2_7_2008.mp3" /]
Thank you for you blog.
God Bless
I know I’m late to the discussion. Thanks, Danny, for your review. I was looking for a shortcut to my thoughts on Beth Moore. I had a gut feel, but that wasn’t enough. Now I know I can move on. And it makes me wonder why I just don’t read the Bible more when I have questions. That’s the only “More” I need. “I think it’s very odd, that while I attempt to help myself, my Bible sits upon my shelf.” (Sara Groves)
This is all very sad. I’m sure God’s heart breaks when He sees His Children bickering amongst themselves like this. This whole thread is very discouraging actually.
so if I were to put out a warning about someone that YOU knew was preaching a false message, would that be ok?
Danny,
Thank you for your honesty on Beth Moore and insightful reviews. I have been bothered about her for some time and could not quite put my finger on it. Our church has been allowing her studies to go on now for about 2 or more years? I have been invited to these and I even went twice thinking, ok this time..I will like her. Wrong! There is something I think evil around her? When you dare to ask questions about her to others in the church that like her, you get called ‘devisive’, and ‘judgmental’. These women are cultish about her! Our pastor is checking into her I hope and pray, but it is hard to be the ‘one’ who doesn’t agree with her teachings. I have found her very unexpository, she takes passages out of context continually. She also promotes Contemplative Spirituality. Where is the discernment??? I wish John MacArthur would speak out about her teachings and clarify her once and for all because I know that then my pastor would listen. He loves John. Thanks again!
I have been reading the comments and I must say the battlefield is in the mind and the real war is between God and satan… So lets work on removing satan from our mind, love one another and pray for your enemies may god bless you all…
Hello there, I came across your article while researching the controversy of Beth Moore. I have done several of her studies, but I have recently become aware of the controversy. Your post id literally the FIRST that goes point by point. Many others, even from large publications are vague, general, unsupported, often unfounded claims. You have raised many points that I had not even noticed during that very study last year, but I thank you also for acknowledging the positive attributes.
BM does have a study regarding the fruit of the spirit, and her new study on James; this is the study I just began at my church; also discusses fruit and knowing faith by the works we do.
Although there are weaknesses, I believe that her picture as a whole (meaning the workbooks too) lend Christian women some insight into historical context and meaning that many other studies do not. However this is why Paul warns us to be knowledgable in the word so that we may hold teachings to the light of God. No speaker is without fault, and I thank you for clearly delineating the shortcomings.
I think that I overlooked her gospel portion; didn’t pay attention; because I wasn’t concerned with it. I knew where she was going, however I do see where a non-believer may be misled without an emphasis on sin.
Okay, I am rambling now. Thank you again.
I think you are forgetting one thing Danny. God works all things to the good of His kingdom and your “understanding” is certainly not His. Have you interviewed women that have gone through any of her “women’s” bible studies? Have you asked any of them what impact that any of her studies has had on them? As for music, I am in the choir of my church and every Sunday I am touched to the point of tears EVERY TIME! Is this an emotional response? Yes and Amen, as the awesomeness of His Spirit fills us with joy! Job 38:7 7 when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy? ALL creation sings His praise. Would you limit that because you don’t like a song or judge it because it elicits “superficial feelings” So now because you say this song or that song is superficial… God can reach anyone through anything. Your Christian music may not be sound, but as for the music I listen to and yes that is on the radio is all about praising and glorifying God. God can reach through His creation of music. Case in point; I am a musician/songwriter/singer, I write country/blues/rock and yes even a Christian country song. One night after my band had finished the night, there was a man that walked up to me and said; “If you ever wonder why you do this, if anyone asks you why you do this, I just want to let you know, you saved a soul tonight.” God’s grace used something in one of my songs to save someone! It was a rock song and no where in the words had it mentioned God! I talked to him for a time, it came out that he (this man) he could hear that I had suffered a lot of pain and yet I came out on the other side. God opens many doors to reach His beloved children. So for me your argument on music does not hold any water for me.
As for the gal in Africa, ALL people are the CHILDREN OF GOD. IT is we, who choose to follow evil and really only God can judge one’s heart. I have had a life that had been rough, yet I still pray that my uncle and aunt are saved, I do not wish that they should suffer hell. That is the forgiveness part. Proverbs 24:17; Do not rejoice when your enemy falls, And do not let your heart be glad when he stumbles;
As for sin, we are all sinners, yet we are forgiven all of our iniquities if we ask Him for forgiveness. We are covered yet we all fall short of the glory of God. Beth shares her testimony and lets others know that although she is where she is on her walk, she still stumbles but through Jesus Christ she can stand back up. What is wrong with that?
So I guess instead of giving your condemnation of Beth Moore, pray! We should always pray for our leaders because Satan works even harder on those that bring about the freedom of God’s people.
Hi Danny, I hope you are doing well. Thank you for this post – I agree with you. Unfortunately, I also agree with the critics who see something wrong with “us”, being the ones who are into “discerning the spirits” and could not even help it even if we wanted to. But I cannot really put my finger on it…
I know I’ve been proud, fallen deeply, brought to repentance by Jesus, only to become proud again, then fall, and so on. All that time, I knew I was saved, but I did not find the strength to walk my own theology. (I thought for a while if I should leave this sentence that way, or replace “theology” by “love for Jesus” or “new nature”, but I decided provocatively to leave it.) I certainly didn’t find the strength within me, but also not in Jesus, at least not for a while. In fact, I felt like I loved Jesus very much, even in the midst of it (and I know theology would say that’s I lie), but still found myself unable to stop sinning. Slowly, those waves evened themselves out, but I still know about my total depravity, even as a saved saint, and I would not trust myself.
Danny, I believe we are correct in our judgment of Beth Moore being “man-centered”, but what do others mean when they are offended by us? By us, who have such great theology, but feel such responsibility to “defend God’s truth”? Is there something in us, maybe pride, that doesn’t go over very well?
In one of my more humble moments I came up with a thought: If God needs someone to speak for him, he can give voice to these rocks in the field and make them shout his truth. And that means: I am not indispensable.
Much love and best wishes for your walk with Jesus
Karin
What an interesting article you write. It always saddens me that we have arm chair critics who judge constantly but are never bold enough to stand up and be counted like Beth Moore does. It is always so easy to shoot people down as your blog clearly does. Instead of criticising would it not be better that you do your own series, with deep theological learnings that cover what Beth Moore misses out? Easy to judge not so easy to be judged. You say that we must judge. I thought scripture says Judge, lest you be judged….test what people teach against the word, but not judge.
You do not even know Beth Moore and you see only a glimpse of her journey but her heart always appears (i don’t know her either) to love the Lord her God with all her heart, soul and strength. Out of that she wants to encourage others to move forward also in deepening their relationship with Jesus.
I think you are looking so hard for people who might be false teachers that you’re missing the point. We should always test what others say against the word of God as we have a personal relationship with God, who is our ultimate Shepherd and guide.
We must also build relationship with others also. We are designed for relationship and connection, not to journey alone. To judge so many people that really want to help others have a deeper walk with the Lord is sad. All people are flawed and sin daily in thought, mind or deed. We really do need to be mindful and take the plank out of our own eye before removing specks out of others.
We need to encourage one another, build one another up (not falsely but joyfully), love one another as commanded. Life is tough enough in the world. The further we are away from Adam and Eve, the less like perfection we are already disadvantaged and we may feel insignificant but your know what God makes us significant. We need to get in our own back yards and make friends with people and be Jesus to people. That sometimes is the only way the yet unsaved hear about Jesus. We need to rise up together, not apart!
OK, I’m off to the school yard now……one of the toughest places I know but I try to smile to everyone and be a shining light.
Let’s get busy people…..time is running out!
Lisa, I hate to point this out, but you just judged me, and you don’t know me at all. My point of the article is that we need to understand when our gospel presentation (our most important message) is lacking. An example is when Beth has written that she does not think there is any room for God’s wrath in a witness encounter, only God’s love. That is a shallow gospel. Without wrath, God’s mercy is robbed of it’s meaning. A shallow gospel leads to false Christians.
No hate or judging, just sadness and opinion my brother.
Thanks
I am saddened that you are caling a woman ministering to women through the HOly Spirit of Christ Jesus a false teacher and lacking in her teaching skills. I would like to point out that you are a man. These studies of Beth’s are discipleship courses. They are not courses on witnessing. They are not courses for soul winning. They are especially not for men. So, I’m curious as to why you, a man, would be reviewing her work so critically. Her intent is not to present the Gospel to lost women, however, if lost women attend her studies, they receive a Gospel of love, mercy and healing. The world judges women enough. Beth Moore is a Godly woman who never proclaims to be a preacher or have special revelation or anything else. SHe is simply called by GOd to minister to hurting women. Women who have had similar experiences and felt similar ways. Women who have been injured by men, some of whom proclaim to be men of God. Women who have bought into the world’s lies and Satan’s lies about who they are and how they are to feel about their womanhood. Isaiah 61 is a passage about binding up the brokenhearted, and setting the captives free. Sometimes you have to get a person who has been so violently and severely injured to a place where they can receive the love of Christ and let the HOly SPirit reveal their sin. They don’t need someone else pointing out their sins and failures to live a righteous life. Even Christians can be so violently injured by man that they start to believe Satan’s lies. It doesn’t mean they’re lost. It means that they need to receive the love that Christ has already given them. THat love leads to repentance and a new life and becoming a new creature. REceiving Christ as Savior doesn’t erase being sexually molested by a father; beaten by a “godly” mother; verbally debased by adults that he trusted; or having an alcoholic mother or father. THe list could go on. Christ doesn’t erase our past; He just covers our past sins with His blood. He paid the debt for our sin, but we still have to face consequences for sin–our own personal sin and the sins inflicted upon us. Price does not equal consequences. IT takes time for a Christian who has been so deeply wounded to give those hurts and lies over to a loving God. It takes time to understand that Christ loves us despite what we’ve been told all our lives. It takes time to become more Christlike and righteous in our lives. I’m thankful to my God that he is not the vengeful record keeper of my wrongs who demands righteousness for my penance. My GOd loves me and knows the deep hurts that have occurred in my life. He wants me to give Him what I can when I can and eventually be completely and utterly His. This is a process and until I’m no longer clothed in flesh, this cannot be attained. Christians sin on a daily basis. THat doesn’t mean they have not accepted CHrist’s redeeming work on the cross. It doesn’t mean they are not Christians. Our place is not to judge or critize those who are struggling. We need to be there to lift them up when they are ready to be lifted up and pointed to Jesus. Our job is not to kick them when they are down and condemn them into repentance. THe HOly SPirit is the convicter of sins–not you or I. This is Biblical. Instead of watching 7 DVD sessions, reading through a study by a woman for women and calling her lacking in her Gospel presentation and a false teacher- understand the context of the message. ONe of the first things you learn when studying the Scriptures is – WHo is the author? WHo is the message written to? What is the cultural context of the mesage? WHat does the message say literally? etc. I’m afraid you missed the boat on this one. It’s almost like you are against her right off the bat for being female and ministering to females. It’s obvious that you would not be in a position to minister to women. I pray that you grow in CHrist and that you are able to love people and allow the HOly SPirit to convict, teach and comfort.